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Balance

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I'm not the one who brags about balance all that much. People were saying that there will be new balance after merge, but I haven't
heard a word afterwards. So I thought I'll pretty much give you, dear admins, my summary, to maybe, help you get things clear. In any way
this is just my opinion from what I've witnessed, but I suppose some people will agree with me.

 

Lets talk about most unbalanced class in the game first.
SM:
Its problem is highly unbalanced damage output. In no way max ene + mana makes a good way to make a combo formula, since by making 1 stat max
you get 2x the boost for combo. Since other classes have to choose between one or two stats, SM has to do none of that and just go full energy and have the
most damage. Besides that, combo spells makes no sense whatsoever. Listen to this sentence and tell me, how is this balanced? Highest damage dealing combo in
the game, which is the safest combo in the game and has absolutely 0 reflect penalty. Sounds dumb doesn't it? /

My suggestion:
Remove teleport skill from their combo and replace it with something else. Going pvp is extremely cancerous just because they are teleporting all over the place
and why not? Of course they will, because its part of their combo. Removing teleport skill from their combo would give much more room for error since they
would have to choose between teleport and making combo. I'd say that would be a perfect way to make things even without lowering sm dmg directly.

 

DL:


I don't have to say much about DL. While they have some flaws I wouldn't consider it too over the top crazzy. Again, I'm not a DL player
I haven't got much experience with it. I think DL should be nerfed down just a little bit, but nothing too extreme.

BK:

 

The unkillable machine, is there even anything else to say? How is going full vitality with ref items and not using any skills is
a viable thing? All I see is some noob with full vit with random reflect items standing and top players dying, because they
are killing themselves. In no way I think this is a good thing that this even exist in the game. So lets say in castle siege,
people should just run by and ignore bk who are doing this, since they will just kill themselves?
Suggestion:
I'm not sure how powerful you admins are in the game itself, I suppose you're pretty limited by frames of old game. My suggestion would be to
lower reflect % on bk items so maybe after that some other viable strategies would come into play.

 

ELF:


Overall shit class. Buff buff buff, don't know how anyone finds it fun to play this class. Buffing it in the realm of mu
would make it too strong and there is nothing to nerf already.
Sorry, don't have suggestions for elf, I just simply don't like it.

MG:

Until admins will change their views on this class, nothing will probably change, but eh, since I play this class, I might already try.
No, I won't say certain things because this is my main class, I'm not that person. I've heard admins say that this class is debuffer
and that it isn't supposed to have high dmg output. Categorising this class as debuffer, because of one spell is more than stupid.
It could be a very fun class to play, because of the gap closer to engage fights etc. While it has a potential, its shit compared to others.
MG can't kill bk, because mg will just kill itself. MG can't kill elf, because of max agi and high reflect punishment on combo. MG can't
kill SM, because SM is bullshit in every aspect, the only class I feel that mg can try to fight is DL, but at the end DL will come on top anyway.

I'll give you an example. My MG (160TDM rating) can't fight vs some trash SM (130TDM rating) with ichor set, because he had much more dmg
with ichor and has no lower defense penalty while wearing ancient, because of teleport.
You gave mg fastest combo in the game and it would be fine if reflect penalty wouldn't be so damn big.
My suggestion:
Change your point of view. MG is not a debuffer class. Your idea was to give this class the fastest combo, but what is the point
of fast combo if you can hit it 1/10 of a time. It makes it slowest combo in the end. So I'd say, make MG the single class
who will have less turbulence than others to actually be able to hit the fastest combo.


Final thoughts:

Every class should really feel different and I think you should show these differences with brighter colors. Take away elf's ability to fight,
but make it so incredible at buffing so that everyone should focus elf first and only DDAN later. Make elf worth defending by other classes.
SM has incredibly high damage and I get it to some extent, but don't make teleport a part of his ,,must use" spells, but make it a tool for
him to use it. You were trying to make mg assassin like with his fast combo, so do it it to then, make mg without ref penalty, but with lesser
damage output so that it would feel like an actual assassin with gap closer and high skill curve for being precise with your combo (less dmg
per combo, but no reflect penalty) in this case you would have to make much more combo to kill someone, but you would have fastest combo.
I feel like DL is pretty unique as it is right now and nothing much has to be changed, but BK really has to be changed to be really different in someway.

Thanks for spending your time,
Exo

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Few things from me...

 

SM can't live w/o TP, I am pretty sure it won't be taken out of the combo, that would just give SM a even faster combo, but on the other side, take away any chance of survival. TP is SM's main PVP skill, everybody should already know that. Ancient is already nerfed for SM's, so their dmg output is not that crazy as it was before. Combo, yes, this needs to looked at, it feels a little unfair that ene gives double boost to it, especially since in the start it was meant to popularize +mana items, which will not work..

 

DL is fine, you need a pretty maxed out DL to compete with other max chars, so it's fine in my view.

 

Elf.. Well, yes, it's main duty is to buff, that is the point of the char. But i can assure you, go agi+vit, gold fen, w4+all, RS set+3 opt, +all bow -> top killer in TDM. Proven.

 

BK is BK.. Ref BK is just one of the possibilities, the most stupid one (in my and many other players view), but it is a pretty smart way to play, especially if you're not max res and +all.

Overall, you have to remember, BK is the strongest char in MU, always was, always will be. It is quite "nerfed" already, and it can't reach its max potential due to the not-max stats, but still.. Right equip, in the right hands, game over.

However, i don't quite approve this full vit tanking thing, because if +all BK's do it, they are literally immortal to 98% of the server and they can 1-2-3 combo their opponents. 

 

MG, well, this is where it gets good.

You can't judge by your char since you are, well 3 resets and 80 quests away from max possible stats. Get that, check again.

1/10 combo? Then it's all in your skills, go practice. 

And yes, it is a debuffer, this debuff is it's biggest advantage.

MG has been upped many times already, vit gives more dmg, the def is customized and increased, it has no set bonus penalty for helm, etc etc etc.

Just let me ask you this, did you see Supreme (E39530D) in action? Full res, full quest, +15 mayhem, w4+all, demon, +all weaps and jewelry, he could literally kill anyone, even top BK's, even in duels (where BK is of course the top duel char). 

Your char is just halfway done and you should probably get some advice from Supreme on how to use it to max potential.

 

All in all, i think the SM combo should be reviewed. Also the Elf combo, since it's quite useless, nobody really uses it.. I didn't, i just used Multishot, was enough for me, combo just slowed me down. MG.. well, MG is always prone to changes, so maybe something will come it's way :D

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@popwar, you're talking 'bout same full donated Supreme, who got destroyed 10-0 in pvp against non donating BK? You refuse to see things. Even If I'm not full rr and quest, the sm I was fighting is neither. P.S. Never told you to delete teleport, just told u to take it out of combo and change it up with rather slow spell and make teleport situational instead of fucking annoying bullshit. P.P.S. So you think that easiest, strongest and without reflect penalty combo is ok to exist in the game?

Edited by Function

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17 minutes ago, Function said:

@popwar, you're talking 'bout same full donated Supreme, who got destroyed 10-0 in pvp against non donating BK? You refuse to see things. Even If I'm not full rr and quest, the sm I was fighting is neither. P.S. Never told you to delete teleport, just told u to take it out of combo and change it up with rather slow spell and make teleport situational instead of fucking annoying bullshit.

What 10:0  i cant win duels with mg only ig i get luck 

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Just now, Supreme said:

What 10:0  i cant win duels with mg only ig i get luck 

Nothing personal bro, I just wanted to highlight the problem overall.

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25 minutes ago, Function said:

@popwar, you're talking 'bout same full donated Supreme, who got destroyed 10-0 in pvp against non donating BK? You refuse to see things. Even If I'm not full rr and quest, the sm I was fighting is neither. P.S. Never told you to delete teleport, just told u to take it out of combo and change it up with rather slow spell and make teleport situational instead of fucking annoying bullshit.

 

Yeah, well, that was when he barely started MG.. Anyway, MG vs BK in duel, 10:0 is the most likely score, however he won top BK's in +all, right? Somehow ppl only remember the bad things, or in this case, the things that match their opinion. I watched a few his duels as spectator against top BK's, he always won. That says a lot about MG, right? If MG can win BK in DUEL, then the char is fine. But as I said, MG is being experimented on all the time, it might get something new out of the blue.

 

Well, i'm not saying delete teleport either, but this is the slowest combo possible, i would say. And it gives SMs the chance to survive. W/o TP they would die without even getting to combo (well, the ones w/o +all or pets). 

Also, which is the slow skill you talk about? Nova? xD 

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11 minutes ago, popwar said:

 

Yeah, well, that was when he barely started MG.. Anyway, MG vs BK in duel, 10:0 is the most likely score, however he won top BK's in +all, right? Somehow ppl only remember the bad things, or in this case, the things that match their opinion. I watched a few his duels as spectator against top BK's, he always won. That says a lot about MG, right? If MG can win BK in DUEL, then the char is fine. But as I said, MG is being experimented on all the time, it might get something new out of the blue.

 

Well, i'm not saying delete teleport either, but this is the slowest combo possible, i would say. And it gives SMs the chance to survive. W/o TP they would die without even getting to combo (well, the ones w/o +all or pets). 

Also, which is the slow skill you talk about? Nova? xD 

This has nothing to do with matching my opinion since opinion is subjective. Supreme and I am in the same server only for the duration after merge, so the only fight I've seen him do is vs Madara where he got 10-0. By the way bro, you should google what is the definition of balance. I'll give you an example from a perspective of engineering. If you have lets say a column and some kind of beam sitting on top of it. Weight of the beam will work as a vertical, positive force while column has the same force, but the vector of it will be rotated (negative, support force). In other words, system has to have same amount of negative and positive forces to be balanced without it falling apart. Applying that to your words: Just by saying that BK is strongest and he will always be you cannot make an assumption about balance anymore. Another example of inbalance is sm. (Strongest combo, easiest lvling and questing, highest damage) only positive forces without any negative ones. I don't really care if I will continue to fail in pvp because of inbalances or not, I just wanted to help you out by giving suggestions and my views, but as long as you'll be in denial of everything, nothing will change. I suppose I won't even try anymore :)

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27 minutes ago, popwar said:

 

Yeah, well, that was when he barely started MG.. Anyway, MG vs BK in duel, 10:0 is the most likely score, however he won top BK's in +all, right? Somehow ppl only remember the bad things, or in this case, the things that match their opinion. I watched a few his duels as spectator against top BK's, he always won. That says a lot about MG, right? If MG can win BK in DUEL, then the char is fine. But as I said, MG is being experimented on all the time, it might get something new out of the blue.

 

Well, i'm not saying delete teleport either, but this is the slowest combo possible, i would say. And it gives SMs the chance to survive. W/o TP they would die without even getting to combo (well, the ones w/o +all or pets). 

Also, which is the slow skill you talk about? Nova? xD 

 

@popwar you'd better shut your mouth before talking. There are flyes flying and you might even swallow one :D

First create a fucking character and play in the server then give your oppinion. I hate when people saying shit but they don't TEST it before.

 

Just my two cents on this thread

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20 minutes ago, Function said:

This has nothing to do with matching my opinion since opinion is subjective. Supreme and I am in the same server only for the duration after merge, so the only fight I've seen him do is vs Madara where he got 10-0. By the way bro, you should google what is the definition of balance. I'll give you an example from a perspective of engineering. If you have lets say a column and some kind of beam sitting on top of it. Weight of the beam will work as a vertical, positive force while column has the same force, but the vector of it will be rotated (negative, support force). In other words, system has to have same amount of negative and positive forces to be balanced without it falling apart. Applying that to your words: Just by saying that BK is strongest and he will always be you cannot make an assumption about balance anymore. Another example of inbalance is sm. (Strongest combo, easiest lvling and questing, highest damage) only positive forces without any negative ones. I don't really care if I will continue to fail in pvp because of inbalances or not, I just wanted to help you out by giving suggestions and my views, but as long as you'll be in denial of everything, nothing will change. I suppose I won't even try anymore :)

Well, he started the MG just after the merge, all the duels i spectated were already on Aurora :D 

 

Anyway, how do you imagine perfect balance in a game where all the chars have their roles, their strengths/weaknesses, and even different build possibilities? + ppl have different gears, you can have different resists etc etc. Such thing as perfect balance, where everyone is the same does not exist in mmorpg's, at least not in MU.

 

So yeah, BK is, was and will be the strongest. Ok, i have heard that the new chars can beat him, but i have no idea and that is not relevant for us. All the others chars are already improved immensely. I mean come on, MG winning BK in a duel :D   

 

But yes, as a whole concept, i agree that BK should be somehow looked at, same goes for SM combo, and as I mentioned, i would also look at Elf combo.

 

Ok, let's just agree on what we agree on and stop this unnecessary spam :D 

All these posts about balance are viewed by the administration, this can somehow influence their next actions.

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33 minutes ago, popwar said:

Well, he started the MG just after the merge, all the duels i spectated were already on Aurora :D 

 

Anyway, how do you imagine perfect balance in a game where all the chars have their roles, their strengths/weaknesses, and even different build possibilities? + ppl have different gears, you can have different resists etc etc. Such thing as perfect balance, where everyone is the same does not exist in mmorpg's, at least not in MU.

 

So yeah, BK is, was and will be the strongest. Ok, i have heard that the new chars can beat him, but i have no idea and that is not relevant for us. All the others chars are already improved immensely. I mean come on, MG winning BK in a duel :D   

 

But yes, as a whole concept, i agree that BK should be somehow looked at, same goes for SM combo, and as I mentioned, i would also look at Elf combo.

 

Ok, let's just agree on what we agree on and stop this unnecessary spam :D 

All these posts about balance are viewed by the administration, this can somehow influence their next actions.

 

Elf were already improved if I'm not wrong. I've seen a big difference in their combo since last days. Even killed me with other elf buff. :-)

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4 hours ago, Function said:

@popwar, you're talking 'bout same full donated Supreme, who got destroyed 10-0 in pvp against non donating BK? You refuse to see things. Even If I'm not full rr and quest, the sm I was fighting is neither. P.S. Never told you to delete teleport, just told u to take it out of combo and change it up with rather slow spell and make teleport situational instead of fucking annoying bullshit. P.P.S. So you think that easiest, strongest and without reflect penalty combo is ok to exist in the game?

man this is not true, im full bk (knight) and on duels with supreme we had aroun 10-8 but i won, so there is a right strategy for MG, just need to know it. If you want to know something more about it pm me! 

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Am I the only one who thinks it's weird that a player with 32 resets, less then 57 achievements ( not in top 100 achievers) and 183 quests talks about balance? 9_9

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@ArchAngel Did it hurt you, that most of server players think that your main class is overpowered? I didn't want this thread to be something negative
nor I wanted to get angry with anyone, but your sense of logic is wrong. I do like playing video games in my spare time and mu is not even close to being
my favorite one. Other games include balance requirements as well. So if you think that I have to have everything maxed out to be able to talk about
balance, you couldn't be further from truth. Sense of balance comes from experience overall and not just playing mu in general. I'd suggest you play
some strategy games for example ,,Civilization VI", where its way harder for developers to make balance, yet they kinda achieved it (not 100% of the time,
but most of it). Please notice, that I didn't mention fighting full players, I was fighting player who had 30 less TDM points than me and just because he is
sm he could beat me 6-10 and this is not right. You didn't see me brag about loosing to MZU or Queen, because this makes sense, since they have everything
and I still have long way to go. I don't want to insult you man, but you are being really braindead for attacking me in this way :)

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9 hours ago, Function said:

@ArchAngel Did it hurt you, that most of server players think that your main class is overpowered? I didn't want this thread to be something negative
nor I wanted to get angry with anyone, but your sense of logic is wrong. I do like playing video games in my spare time and mu is not even close to being
my favorite one. Other games include balance requirements as well. So if you think that I have to have everything maxed out to be able to talk about
balance, you couldn't be further from truth. Sense of balance comes from experience overall and not just playing mu in general. I'd suggest you play
some strategy games for example ,,Civilization VI", where its way harder for developers to make balance, yet they kinda achieved it (not 100% of the time,
but most of it). Please notice, that I didn't mention fighting full players, I was fighting player who had 30 less TDM points than me and just because he is
sm he could beat me 6-10 and this is not right. You didn't see me brag about loosing to MZU or Queen, because this makes sense, since they have everything
and I still have long way to go. I don't want to insult you man, but you are being really braindead for attacking me in this way :)

There are 3 or 4 thread about this thing. What's  the point of this 5th thread? You can adapt to new changes somewhere else, what is different here? 2 months admins let changing stats with 1 bon so people can test builts of their characters, I think was more then enough to get the best built for any character. Some of the players want to be tanks, some of them want to be killers. On a non full stats server you can't have both of them and the middle way exists, but you have to accept your deaths or your kills.

 

So, what's the point of this thread?

Edited by popwar
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20 minutes ago, Function said:

You didn't see me brag about loosing to MZU or Queen,

really not them but what is this?

 

9 hours ago, Function said:


Final thoughts:


 Take away elf's ability to fight,
but make it so incredible at buffing so that everyone should focus elf first and only DDAN later.


Thanks for spending your time,
Exo

 why you don't focus MZU after you focus on Opium!!!

 

Balance!!!   Hmmmmm!!!!

 

IT'S A FUCKING WARR GAME. IT IS NORMAL LIKE THAT. GO AND PLAY "CIVILIZATION VI" IF YOU NEED   BALANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Everything not related to topic hidden.

 

If shit like this happens again, outside of Tavern (even in there, there are limits), all of you are looking at a long RO. Keep this dick measuring competition in-game.

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